Ep. 18 - Your Bell Schedule Is Racist (But Thanks for Coming on Time)

Good morning, family. You’re tuned in to Three for the Founders, and we’re coming at you this Monday, September 16th with a brand-new episode that runs a smooth 65 minutes and change.

This week, John, Lybroan, and Antonio start with the kind of banter that’ll have you grinning before you sip your coffee—debating whether it’s sock-sock, shoe-shoe or sock-shoe, sock-shoe (and yes, they manage to turn even that into a DEI joke). They shout out friends from Santa Clara to the San Fernando Valley—and even a new listener tuning in all the way from Vietnam.

Then the crew flips the beat and goes deep:

    •    What does it mean when we talk about “white time” versus communal rhythms of the global majority?

    •    How do Black and Brown teachers shift classroom culture from rigid bells and whistles to gatherings that begin when the people are ready?

    •    And what really happened with integration after Brown v. Board—was it about race, or about resources?

Along the way you’ll hear stories of math made dope, classrooms as lifelong families, Mama James’ “check and hug” survival strategy, and why speaking—like jazz—ain’t about hitting every note, it’s about knowing when to improvise.

And before they sign off, the hosts draw a sharp line between everyday prejudice and the weight of systemic racism backed by government power. It’s candid, it’s layered, it’s got humor and heart—just like hip hop radio in its golden age, but with that NPR-level reflection.

So hit play, stay with us, and when it’s done—share it with somebody who can use it, or somebody who can challenge it. Because these conversations don’t end here, they keep moving when you bring them into your world.

🎧 Three for the Founders: Episode dropping Monday, September 15th

Thanks for joining us. Still got questions? Other things to say? Hit us up at Three for the Founders on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, or TikTok and let us know. Til the next time...left on founders...we out! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Uh are you a sock sock shoe shoe person or a sock shoe sock shoe person?

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Oh switching that up wow man I got a sock sock psycho goes sock shoe sock shoe and I was like I think No you don't and then I tried the sock shoe sock shoe which is dumb because it's like you're gonna have one shoe one you want to be even so go sock socks I'm gonna kiss pneumonia in my right foot because my left foot is all covered up. Pneumonia now LeBron's talking. See, I knew he had some Latino blood in him. Every any Mexican mom that sees a baby with no socks on, a barefoot baby, it's that's like you're putting the high the hypodermic needle in the baby's in into the vein themselves, like you're murdering that baby by having letting them be barefoot. I'm like, Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 0:59

Barefoot and no shirt on. I'm like, what are you?

SPEAKER_01 1:01

No shirt on. They just walk around the world like they own the place. Whereas the Mexican moms are like, you better they're gonna die in pneumonia.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

I feel like that's your domestic evolution swag at I talking about your children.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Oh, it is. Listen, I I love me some Mexicans so much I had to have some Mexican kids.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

Um so I was a sock sock shoe shoe person, which I think we can all agree is normal.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Yes. Like the normal fraternities?

SPEAKER_02 1:36

Yes, like normal fraternities, except this one's true because it's something that I believe deeply. Um but you also know that I now have a velociraptor uh puppy who likes to show things right. And so it's sock shoe, sock shoe. Because whatever it is I'm paying attention to is what he's trying to chew. I've changed from sock sock, shoe, shoe to sock, shoe, sock, shoe, and I actually like it better.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

LeBron, you seem to have a strong opinion about this one that you gotta go sock, sock, shoe, shoe.

SPEAKER_03 2:16

I mean, that's just how it is. I'm like, I can't have a sock and a shoe on and nothing on the other foot. That's not equity, dude. That's not I'm mathematical, man. I need balance in my life.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

That's not equity. Oh shit.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

That's not equity. That's the typical DEI, even informing how we put our socks and shoes on. That's the problem.

SPEAKER_03 2:40

That's the problem.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Oh, man.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Good lord.

SPEAKER_04 2:44

All right. We're brothers, we're happy and we're stinging and we're colored.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Give me a five. All right, cut and print. Beautiful guys. I don't like that.

SPEAKER_03 3:02

Welcome to Three for the Founders, where brotherhood meets the breakdown. We've been having these conversations for years, and now you are invited to join us. We'll say the things you are afraid to say and ask the questions you've always wanted to ask. Three brothers, all truth, no filters. Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 3:25

Um, I had some shout-outs. I don't know if you guys had some shout-outs, but the religion episode hit hard for people. So I want to shout out uh my good friends, uh Miss J, Rob Harper, Ice, the brother from another mother from way back at UCLA. Yes, we wore a high school too, baby. He had some feelings about the manhood episode and he he let it be known. Uh great brother, I love that guy. Um, Missy Morane uh and Stephanie Wilson, uh Episcopalians in my life, but uh they listened to it, they had feedback, they had thoughts, they wanted to come on. They might be one of our replacement hosts at some point. Uh all friends of the pod, all talking about and thinking about and doing good work in good places. So I just want to shout them out.

SPEAKER_03 4:22

Yes, I want to give a quick shout out to my number one fan, my wife, Sabah. Thank you so much for supporting us, giving us feedback, helping your husband do better and edit himself, which is very hard for him to do. So thank you so much. Love you. Shout out to all my friends and Five Betty Signe, Doll, we do it.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

You know, me and LeBron are both in hotel rooms. We can't really I know, not too loud. Can't go as loud. Although you're in you're in a a city where you probably could be okay. Yeah. Two shout outs. My sister, we talked about her in an episode in Sacred Spaces. I use one of her stories. Kristen Baldridge, older, keeps me honest. She's wise, she's intelligent, she is emotionally intelligent, intelligently intelligent, you know, all the things. So she's been listening and giving me good feedback. So thank you, Kristen. Love you. And new friend, Colby Cope, outside of Albany, New York. I saw you repost in your story, one of our podcasts. So thank you so much. I really appreciate you paying attention. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:29

Oh, also, special shout out to our new follower from Vietnam. Welcome to Three Foot of Founders from Vietnam. Thank you so much. Spread the word.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

Spread the word. New country alert. Where are you coming to us from, John? You're not in Vietnam.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

You are in Santa Clara, California at the moment, just for one day, day and a half work. Excellent, excellent. And uh LeBron?

SPEAKER_03 5:52

Yes, coming to you live from Stockton, California. Stockton. Currently in Lodi, residing in Lodi and working in Stockton. Beautiful. Beautiful. Wise move. Yes, very wise.

SPEAKER_02 6:05

Okay, with the geographic slander, John. Um and uh coming to you from uh the San Fernando Valley.

SPEAKER_03 6:14

Yes, baby. No doubt.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

LA is how we do it. All right, all of us Cali bound, all of us Cali bred, all of us caliborn. No doubt. That's how we do.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

You know this. You shared an article with me a long time ago, LeBron, long before we even thought about having a podcast about what white culture is. You sent me that PDF. Yes, I remember that. And I was kind of mind blown by some of the stuff in there.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

Like you saw it as a as cultural, but you saw but you but you identified with it? What what was the mind blowing?

SPEAKER_01 6:51

What was what was mind blowing were was were the actual elements of saying this is part of white whiteness. It wasn't even white culture. It's like what is whiteness? White were like whiteness. But like a a seriousness about being on time, like timely.

SPEAKER_03 7:05

Oh my goodness, that is white. Woo! That's the whitest thing since white bread, right there.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

And I I read that and I shared that with with some friends, and I'm like, wait, this isn't everybody like why of course yes. If we say 12 o'clock, that's 12 o'clock. Like, what the f that's that's white people culture. Okay, and this is really funny. Here's why it blew my mind because at some point whiteness in America means you know, it's non-European now. It's just it's or if it no, I shouldn't say non-European, it's British. Because if you get into Europe, you get into my people, my where my people came from, these were like tribal cultures. This is all day gatherings.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

This is the Italian or the Polish both both, both.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

We're talking cousins coming over, who knows, all day. Just think Antonio's house on a Saturday. Like that's what it looked like back in the day. But frankly, the the whiteness that is American whiteness is very British, it's very Puritan, it's very stiff, it's very stiff, orderly. And this is where when we talk about like the rhythm of colonialism, I'm like, you know, clapping on one and three is orderliness. That's putting things in their place. The opposite of feeling. So when you shared that article with me and you're like, and I read that one of the definitions, one of the many, and I got to go back and read it. I think it'd be fun to go over with you all. One of them timeliness, I was like, I felt accused. Then I'm like, what's wrong with this? You're telling me if you got to get to somebody. If you're trying to get to somewhere and the bus says it's gonna arrive at 1038 and you've got to get to your job by 1056, and the bus shows up at 1042, you're telling me you're not mad, you don't you don't want someone who's in the middle of the state.

SPEAKER_02 8:59

The fact that it says 1042 and 1038 and 1056 is systemic implementation of white culture because you're worried about it like that. And I'll bring you back to the example that the challenge, the difference, right? So when you just said my house on a Saturday, right? We just had a gathering, everybody's here. One invitation said two o'clock, one invitation said three o'clock, one invitation said four o'clock. That's because I messed up, and then my wife was like, Don't have people over here at two. I haven't vacuumed yet.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

But I can tell you, I can't wait to I got something for you. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

Who's gonna show up at what time? Thank you. Number one, and number two Hey LeBron.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Who showed up?

SPEAKER_02 9:47

And number two, there's like it's an estimation because the party is gonna begin when the gathering, when everybody is there.

SPEAKER_05 9:59

And Tony and my wife.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

No, it's not. The party doesn't begin at two and end at seven. It starts when everybody gets there and it ends when everybody leaves.

SPEAKER_03 10:11

Leaves. Right. Because when I got the invitation, me and Sabah were looking like, okay, it says two. Cool. We'll be there about four, four thirty, because it'll be cracking by then. And we that's how we do it. Like, if we showed up in two, we would be insulting because I'm like, yeah, they ain't ready yet. They ain't ready yet. They ain't ready yet. They're telling you to start getting ready.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

Which invitation did you look at, though?

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Which invitation did you look at? The two o'clock. The two o'clock. Oh, and that's my fault. But still, listen, but still, that's right. I'm gonna tell you guys, your way is way better. Like in the aggregate, that's way better. Show up when you show up, leave when you leave. Like, we know that that's that's where that's more fun, that's more congenial with everyone. But let me case sure. Let's say, I mean, again, like rigid. I'm having people over for dinner. We're having meatloaf at 6 30, and then we're gonna have the mashed potatoes get cold at 6 32. Like, so I say we're having dinner at 6 30, and and I I'm like, place is ready, it's set, and and and then people who showed up at 7, 7:30, like that's kind of rude in that right, in that vein. So the we gotta like, how do you navigate the difference between those two? You have to figure out like, is it wait, is this a white party or is this a not white party?

SPEAKER_02 11:40

You get but but it's if you said out loud, right? And I'm not I'm not blaming any one person because like you showed up, you were you're right, you showed up at three, right? And like LeBron said, I thought I was an hour late. Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

Right. But that's on purpose, because I knew CPU even that but even that language, right, that I was an hour late.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

You weren't an hour after you weren't late, you were right on time. Even if you had showed up at three, you were you weren't late. If you showed up at 4 30, you weren't late.

SPEAKER_03 12:11

That's when you got there. You were white late, but you weren't party late.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

But you weren't, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:16

You're saying I got there at the white place, the white time.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

The right place.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Yeah, it was not the white place, it was the right place, the white time. And so now, you know, this is interesting.

SPEAKER_03 12:28

Oh, go ahead, Antonio.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

No, no, no. I it's culturally we're because we know like when the whole expert thing, right? But we know how that's gonna play out. Like we have CPT, yes, but but it's it's in the I have to explain for the white people that means colored people's time. Colored people's time, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Okay, you go, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 12:53

But it's not, and if you talk to uh people of the global majority, they all have a ding go, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. They all have something form of that, right? That that plays against the normalcy of it's a two o'clock. I used to frustrate the living shit out of my white faculty colleagues because my kids, my students coming to my class would be loud because they're outside the class. We haven't gotten inside yet. Class started at 10, it's 10.02. Yeah. We're still, somebody had to run and go get their books. Somebody had to do that. And I said, I'm not running on this linear space. I got your parameters, it's class, obviously. But I'm not gonna be mad at you because you had to pee or you wanted to do number two, and you didn't want to be in the bathroom with everybody when everybody was in the bathroom at recess, so you waited until everybody went to class, then you let it. Like, I don't know what that is. So the the the gat it begins when we are all gathered, it doesn't behave based on the clock.

SPEAKER_01 14:07

But I'm I'm fascinating if you can apply the same logic to a part of a party to a school schedule. Those things like are we doing kids a disservice by not preparing them for the white world that we live in, which is well gotta show up on time.

SPEAKER_03 14:24

Now it's not the world is not white, John. The world white is the is the minority. Well, America's still not the world, because in California, if I looked at I looked at the statistics, only 25% of students in California are white. So whites are the minority, even in California, in terms of schools. But I understand because even all of us have to be prepared for a white-dominated world. Not for a white world, but for a white-dominated world. So you got to go back to history. White people came from primarily from the Kakazoy Mountains, from and in caves, and it was cold and nothing was growing. So they need to know when is winter coming exactly. We need to go hunt. I need to know exactly what time are the deer gonna be out there, because if I'm late, I won't eat. So time became a survival part of white culture. In places in Africa and other places that are tropical, we got food everywhere all the time. The sun is out, we don't worry about winter and snow. So we're more laid back, chill, we'll do it when we do it and happen when we happen. So those are over time cultural norms are created. Now, because white people dominate in America, they're the culture of power. So we then have to adjust to the culture of power. But amongst ourselves, all people of color know there's a CPT time that there is no actual start and end, and that there's just a natural flow to life.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

Now, if you're one of my let me say this if it was one of the two of you, like what time did you and I send LeBron that picture? Because we were like, No, he can still he might still might be, they still might be here 6 30. We were like, all right, it's possible. Yeah, 6 30, yeah. They probably ain't coming. And then we sent the picture and we was like, Where are you at?

SPEAKER_03 16:23

He sure did. Right? John, if I was there and it was 2 30, I'm like, John ain't coming. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

It's 2 30. Because there are so many levels to this. Because LeBron, you're telling you told me about the talks Papa James had with you about you're gonna have to survive in a white-dominated world, and what that means is you have to learn white culture, you have to learn what white men because those are the men in power, especially when you and I were children.

unknown 16:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

The people in power. So there's this reality that you have to flip in and flip out of it, but it must be very uncomfortable to have to always flip into the frankly very British, rigid, time-structured way of being versus what you naturally want to do, which is what you're accustomed to culturally and genetically. To like you said, we show up and we show up, everybody's here, everybody's here, we're having a good time, we'll finish and we finish.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

Yeah, but when you live in it, John, you adjust without even being aware. Just like if we've had white people come to a Baptist church, they would be off beat for the first year and a half. Eventually, they've kind of figured out the beat, and they'd be like, okay, I know the words to the song, I can't put no raisins in the potato salad. They figure it out over time. This way, we figure out white culture over time. Like my parents intentionally raised me, taught me how to deal with white people. My mom would say, Look, let me tell this is how white people are. So watch me deal with these white people, because that's how you're gonna have to deal with them.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

Give me a trick. Let's get you got to give us one of Mama James' tricks.

SPEAKER_03 17:57

Oh man. So she would be like, Okay, you always have to compliment the white man. Compliment the white man, and you have to make him feel like he's in power. As long as you make it sound like the white man is in power, he'll give you his wife, his kids, his money, as long as you make him feel like he's in power. Did she go to the case?

SPEAKER_01 18:16

Were that easy? Were that simple?

SPEAKER_03 18:17

Oh, that's simple. But she goes, you have to give white people parameters. You gotta give them so she goes, watch me at work. So my mom worked in a laboratory with all these white doctors, and she cleaned all the equipment. So when they would get out of pocket, she would cuss them out in front of me. Say, I'm sick of you, white motherfuckers. What's wrong with you? You think I ain't no goddamn slave. I'm here doing my job. I'm getting paid just like you pay. When the shit is clean, then you can do your damn experiment, motherfucker. You understand? And then she'll be like, anybody want something for lunch? And it would f up because they'd be like, Because you check them and then you then you hug them. You have to chastise them and then you hug them. Oh, I was like, boy, my mom was a peach.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

You were raised in a master class.

SPEAKER_02 19:03

And now he teaches master students.

SPEAKER_03 19:09

Oh, real quick, real quick. So I'm doing the master student program in Indiana, right? Poor white area, Indiana.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

Yes. For those listening, LeBron not only coaches teachers, but he coaches students on how to be successful and how to play the game of academic education in the United States.

SPEAKER_03 19:28

Thank you very much. Yeah. So the program I created is called The Master Student, making academics social, transformative, engaging, and relevant. That's what master stands for. So I'm doing it in this poor area in Indiana. And this cool little white kid with red hair comes in late. Um, and he goes, hey, hey, hey, I signed up. I'm here for the master class. For master's class. I'm like, well, whose class? Master's class. Y'all gonna train me how to be a master, right? I said, no, no, no, no. We're gonna be a master student. No, I'm here to be a master. I'm like, nah, that's not gonna go over well, bruh. We can't. But he's gonna be a good one.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

You're about 200 years too late.

SPEAKER_03 20:09

But he was so innocent about it. I cracked me up. I had to give him a hug. I'm like, dude, you don't know how funny it is. How old was this?

SPEAKER_00 20:16

How old were they?

SPEAKER_03 20:17

He was like in eighth grade. Oh, so he's like, I know I'm late. I'm late. I'm here to be a master. I'm like, no, no, you're here to be a master student.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

Hey, you're in the right state. Hey, young blood. Let me convert, let me conversate with you. Let me conversate with you a little bit.

unknown 20:33

There you go.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Hey, serious question, LeBron. Do you start your class on time?

SPEAKER_03 20:38

No. You don't? I start it when it's when is when it's ready to start. All right.

SPEAKER_02 20:47

I'm gonna send you a video because I had to put I put together a video of him doing math class online. And and let me not let me let me be clear. Let me let me be clear. Let me be clear. I'm gonna one day it'll actually sound like Obama. Um, but it's not that we're not starting on time. Even asking the question, right? It's still right. We're starting it when everyone is there. Obviously, class doesn't start at 11:30 if it was supposed to start at 10. But I'm not going to start, I don't have to start class at 10. If everybody's there and we're pop, we're ready to go. But I also play music at the beginning of class, which I know LeBron does.

SPEAKER_04 21:33

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

Invite people in, invite the students in. Most of them are there. Cool, we'll sit down. I got a little starting activity that I'm gonna do, right? So that's happening. That takes some longer than others. We're gathering, right? So when I say I don't start class, it's not like the party where you show up when you want to and then there's something on the board. But I don't start class based on the clock. I start class based on the community. Right? And I start class when we've when I've determined that, okay, we're all here. Oh, you're not finished writing yet? I know. Just put a pause on it. We're gonna, we're gonna jump to this and do something together. Oh, you finished it. You want to tell me some more? Say more. Oh, you're you're the kid who wants to do, you know, well, always wants an A and always wants some extra credit. I got another question for you. I want you to think on this while they're working on that. And then you bring it together. Who wants to share out? Or talk to the person next to you. Let's build some community right there, and then we'll share as a large group. And then we as a group, it's 1007, 1008, 1009.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

Gentlemen, I don't know if you know what you just did. Besides, blow my mind in about three different directions. You actually just kicked off the podcast as we intended, because what I was what I'm about to say is this is why the world needs more black and brown teachers. Everything you just described is 100% what I would want my kid to be a part of. More so than Bring bell rings. Why aren't you seated, Jimmy? What sit down, where's your assignment? Like, that's if you think about where education comes from in America, right? And you all can speak to this way better than I can, but my understanding is our education system was developed at a time where we needed factory workers, we needed people who could memorize, who could get in line, who could show up on time, just clock in, clock out, and so our whole structure is like that.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

We needed American labor. So we had to create a factory to create laborers to work.

SPEAKER_03 23:49

Bingo. Yes. And then when the laborers started becoming more melanated, we said we need to create a new system called private schools to put our non-melanated leaders and management in and then keep those labor assembly line jobs for those people of color.

SPEAKER_02 24:13

But they just wanted to be masters, LeBron. They just wanted to be masters.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

Uh I am here for the master's class. I'm here to be a master master. I'm not talking golf tournaments. I'm not talking about a master bedroom.

SPEAKER_02 24:27

I'm not talking about big belt buckles or machine or master's bedroom.

SPEAKER_03 24:35

How many of my ancestors have been in that room? Ooh.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

But I mean, the you said something that to you all maybe seems, I don't know, everyday or mundane, but you said I'm I'm interested in the gathering. I'm in I'm interested in the people in this room. I'm interested in the the feeling among us of readiness and together. We're here, yes, we got all right, good. Let's go. Like you're far more interested in that element than the rigid starting at 10 a.m. if the bell rings at 10 a.m. And I find the that difference of prism that you're looking through is huge. It's very consequential about what the focus is. And very much go back. It does go back into culture. The world needs more black and brown teachers, if only for this way more human us, we collective, let's let's learn together, let's be together, let's collaborate, let's cooperate. It seems like that you're bringing more of that naturally than the rigid, rigid stick to the time thing. Is that an overstatement?

SPEAKER_03 25:47

There's some some parts of that I would agree with a little overstatement. But Antonio, I want you to tell me what has it been like? You've been in this is your Magic Johnson, yeah, right? 32 years in education.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

Damn.

SPEAKER_03 25:58

What have you noticed, big picture, about being a teacher of color in a predominantly white school as compared to your white teaching counterparts? And what you've noticed, some some highlight things, and then what have you noticed about what your students say about being in your class versus other teachers' classes?

SPEAKER_02 26:20

I think that one of the things, um, and to be fully transparent, I'm out of the classroom full-time this year. Uh it's it's uh it's a challenging place to be. Um but I will say that uh one of the things that I'm doing is working on engaging with our alumni. And part of the reason I'm doing that is because uh a lot of our alumni come back to see me. A lot of our alumni, you know, I was I was one of the people who understood what Lynn Manuel Miranda was doing in 2009 when President Obama invited him to the first poetry event. And he said, I'm working on a concept album about one of the founding fathers, Alexander Hamilton. And everybody in the room laughed. And he said, You laugh, but it's true. Um, and so I've called my space the room where it happens. Wow. For almost 20 years now. And I say that to say that what I've noticed is they come back to see me, or they come back to be in the room where it happens intentionally far more often than they come back to see other faculty. And that's not to say other faculty weren't important to them. They're not as dope as you.

SPEAKER_03 27:41

I'll say it. You're doper. You can say you bring culture. But here's And you look good in a tight shirt. So I can see why they want to come back.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

I mean, it's weird. I don't need my students to come back because I look good in a tight shirt, but uh right. But I I think that part of this conversation, right, and and what John is is literally surprised about, is that that not needing, and that's not not holding people accountable, it's not not holding students, you know, helping raise good people, but it is saying, hey, we're gonna be here and we're gonna start and we're gonna struggle through this together, you know. And when I threw out that question about is the Constitution a white supremacist document, or is it an aspirational document? Can it be both? It was because we had developed kind of this trust that the three of us have, and they knew that it wasn't going to when we started this about like this dichotomy about not being able to listen to each other. It wasn't going to they weren't gonna be judged for trying something if they got it wrong, they weren't gonna be judged, right? They were gonna be lifted up. Now, if you say something out of pocket, well, then you get some out of pocket until you could put back in. But you know, you knew you were, I was gonna say, hey, I need you to tuck in your shirt. That is one of our norms. Well, your shirt's not tucked in. Yeah, but I can drive a car too. So, you know, we're not friends, we're not equals. That's not the real thing. But you know that when something is not going well for you, I'm there, right? And that I think that that piece of it has, to your question, LeBron, played out, right? So I started an an Instagram account for my alumni students in 2014. And so I see them, I know what they're doing, even what's just gone on. And so they come back. And when they come back, I'm like, oh, we gotta post, we'll do this for the uniform. You know, we're gonna post it. And so they see that other people have come back, and it's it's just been this running thing. I think that's been the greatest. And I don't know, I just think that they've come back to see me, and people have acknowledged that like they come back to be in the room where it happens more often than they come back. When they see other people, they're they're good.

SPEAKER_03 30:24

Right. But but it's not they don't come back the same way, right? Right with the same intention, and see that's what I appreciate, Antonio, because seeing you as a teacher, I get to see me outside myself because I know what you're doing, I know how you're thinking, and I know the cultural aspect because I taught at primarily private white schools, so I was usually the only black presence in the school. And so the difference I notice is that my white colleagues, most of who are phenomenal teachers, are transactional about education. This is my class, I'm the teacher, I'm in control. Here's my class list this year, I'm done with you. I get a new class list, I'm working with them. Me, everything's communal. The first day of class every year, I said, Look, I'm your new family member. Because if you're on my class roster, we family for life. So that's why my wife said I was like, Why you got so many people on your Facebook? I said, Because those are former students, because we still family. Just because you ain't taking algebra two no more, we still family. I'm still here for you. I'm still just coming to your wedding, your baby shower. So I create a communal environment where we are family. So other teachers be like, LeBron, why are you playing so much loud music? Why is there so much noise? Why are people laughing so loud and screaming in a math class? I said, because it's uh white math taught the black way. And that's how I teach it.

SPEAKER_02 31:56

I have to, John, I have to, I'll send you, I'll text you the video of his class because it's a bunch of interviews with students, but it's also the beginning of the class. And one of the kids, and I'm not gonna do his accent because I can't, but he's like, I love it when you play music because like you hype me up. Like I know we're gonna get like this is gonna be a like this is real.

SPEAKER_04 32:16

What I love most like was how you tuned us up, like where you drop those dope beats before the class.

SPEAKER_03 32:40

That thing you do like enlightens me like to come on and learn, like it makes me feel like math is not just bold and all that.

SPEAKER_02 32:48

It's dope. You guys made math like dope, like we're gonna do a thing, like we it's gonna be like math is dope. Like nobody has ever said math is dope ever. Except real, real except LeBron. And even he didn't remember that his daddy made him do it.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

There was that one video, LeBron. I I think where you appear, you appeared, you were like teaching a class short term, and one of the kids was it like asking, Are you gonna be our teacher now? Right, he was like, Do you have a favorite? Yeah. Remember that one? Yes, little kid. What did he say? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:21

So I was in Indiana, and I was trying to tell these teachers, because 80% of teachers in America are white women, and there's nothing wrong with it. I just have a problem with one group of people creating sort of the culture and mindset of an entire country. Like if you told me all 80% of teachers were black men, I'd be like, ooh, that's gonna be rough. So if it's 80% of anything, to me, it's a challenge. So I was trying to teach her how to connect with the kids culturally. And so she let me teach her class impromptu, and a little white kid said, excuse me, LeBron, don't leave us. Will you be our teacher now? In front of his teacher. In front of his teacher that in front of his teacher, yeah. And so then I had other white kids who's like, I won't pay attention to math, LeBron, until you come back every two weeks. That's the only time I'm gonna pay attention. I'll learn from you, but I'm not learning from this person. And they say it right in front of the teachers. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

So I'm gonna babes.

SPEAKER_03 34:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 34:19

I it where I'm I'm I'm having a hard time dividing up is this can we connect this all to cultural realities, or is it just that the two of you are such coolers that everybody just wants you to be around all the time? I think it's a little bit of I've met the two of you, and I the eight-year-old me would have wanted you to be my teacher instead of 90% of the teachers I had.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

Right, but I mean, I also have parents, right? We also have parents who who say, Oh, well, if you had been my teacher, I would have liked history in middle school. And I'm like, ah, okay. Like, there's a piece of it that is the communal part, and then there's the piece of it that's you know, who we are as individuals. One of the white women at my school, thank you, is uh like I I got to sit in her class today and and be a student with, I mean, obviously they know I'm not, but with the other student with the with the eighth graders. And her command of the classroom, she doesn't start off with what we do, right? She's like, you need to be in your seat. But the manner in which she runs her classroom and what she's pouring into them and how she asks them and engages with them, they're actually in their seats early. They're like, oh, we gotta go to, you know, Miss So-and-so's class, get my stuff. Everybody else is like, get to class. They're like, Yeah, and they're going, they're being there because they know that that's worth their time.

SPEAKER_04 36:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:02

Right. And and it being worth their time isn't, she's not, she's not um adhering to the bell, you know, because she's adhering to the bell. She's adhering to the bell because she only has an hour with them. And she knows that it's gonna take that much for them to get what they're gonna get. She wants, she cares so much about that hour that she doesn't want to give any of it away. And that's the piece that she, you know, translates to them. And so very different, very different cultural upbringing, very different personality, you know. She's from the the uh the northeast, um, very different upbringing. But her demeanor in the classroom, like she's she's only been there, uh, seven, seven, eight, only been there seven or eight years. Uh, and compared to Magic Johnson's 38 years old. Exactly, thank you. Well, compared to my my 21 at this particular institution. And yet she's she started getting kids coming back to see her. You know, they walk by me and they're like, hey, we're going over here. We'll see you. We'll see you in a minute.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

You know. So there's a certain go ahead, sorry. I really have to like as a parent watching good teachers, and then as a we all had teachers and we all have our favorites, and there's different reasons.

unknown 37:32

Mr.

SPEAKER_01 37:32

Goblin, Ms. Birardi. Hey, Mr. Claus. Hey, Mrs. Charles, my English teacher high school. We've got them, right? Yeah. And you know, different personalities, there's no one right way. There's certainly a lot of wrong ways to do it, but if there's if there's maybe a magic combination that I've seen in the good ones, there's a playfulness and there's a respect that goes both ways. I mean, you even say that, Antonio, where it's like, hey, tuck your shirt in. And they're like, you don't have to take your shirt in. And you're like, and then in a playful way, you showed respect, but he also expected respect back. You're like, uh, I also drive a car. That's playful. But also, you know, um, and you set a boundary there. I mean, and that's that's where there's that like dance that the good ones do. And so even it doesn't surprise me that someone does it a total different way, like this woman you're talking about. But she probably the students get that playful, they she does care about them. Right. And maybe playful's too singular of a of an idea, but there's this kind of sense of humor that runs through all the best teachers, but also don't fuck with me. Like that's not so so, John.

SPEAKER_03 38:37

As a teacher of corporate people, because you're just teaching adults. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:42

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 38:43

Do you think you have a style or oh yeah, that's the hard work. Teaching, training adults?

SPEAKER_02 38:49

Who but is your schoolers only worse and they can drive. And they can drive.

SPEAKER_03 38:58

You crazy.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

I have a question for Antonio, but I want to answer your question too, Ron. So are you what are you saying? Do I have a pro what's your question exactly?

SPEAKER_03 39:06

Like how would you identify your style, your approach, and do you see how you emanate your culture through your practice of training corporate professionals?

SPEAKER_01 39:23

I do. I what I have going for me in my particular profession is that I'm I'm mostly speaking training about public speaking. And when I say public speaking, I don't necessarily mean a TED talk or their standing behind a podium. I mean any any speaking except to yourself is public speaking.

SPEAKER_02 39:39

So sometimes that's sometimes and sometimes speaking to yourself is public speaking.

SPEAKER_01 39:47

And I stole that line from my colleague Gene, by the way. Shout out to Gene Block in New York. Thanks, Gene. What I have going for me is that business leaders at the highest level still become six years old when they have to speak. They sweat, they get looking at you looking at his own new common. There it is. Yeah. I don't know what to do with my hands. You do the Ricky Bobby. Yeah. So in a way, I there when it comes to this particular thing I'm training, there's not a lot of ego that I have to fight up against. I I fight up against egos, not even egos, but I get resistance from scientists more than anyone else because if they've got advanced academic degrees, they have validated their existence by just sharing facts and data. And they don't have to be persuasive, they just have to be factual. But what I'm talking to people is well, if you're a scientist and you're trying to convey important information to non-scientists, or you have been identified as someone who has leadership potential in your organization, you're gonna have to learn how to talk to people who don't think like you, which means it's gonna have to go beyond just sharing the facts. You're gonna have to learn how to be influential. So I have I have that going for me that people are usually pretty receptive to the training at the beginning. I don't have to fight a whole lot of resistance, but my style is very playful. I you know where I I get most of my stuff, honestly, yeah, is my dad and music. Like my dad's way of training people as a jazz musician. Jazz is a it's a discipline that turns people into assholes. Because Whoa, really? I thought that would be a classical.

SPEAKER_02 41:37

That was a left turn. I didn't see that one coming.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

No, jazz musicians have a bigger chip on their shoulder usually because what they're doing is the hardest. It's harder than classical music. You have to be as good as classical musicians, but then you have to make stuff up, you have to have courage, you have to know things so well that you can improvise. And it's my dad was never a prolific talent, he was always a hardworking person. And he tells stories. I'd never heard this until later in his life when he was first learning to play the saxophone. He's like eight or nine, and he had no idea what those dots on the page were. He's just like, What is this these dots and these tails? The the music? The music. Okay. So saxophone was his first instrument before he started playing piano in his 20s. And um he he said he would go to a lesson and he could he would just be so nervous. And they had this like old Polish teacher, because he's from like this Polish community in Connecticut, and he's like, You play Billy, and and my dad would always say, You play it first. So the teacher would just play it. And my dad had such a good ear that he could pretty much figure it out, like he would just imitate what he heard, and he could come back and he would just like really, really pour through the notes and try to get them right. So, my whole point being is that that he always had to work super hard and find other things than just being a prodigious talent. And so he he was a very good teacher because of that. He was like, I I can show you how to do this because it didn't just come naturally to me. I've got I had to work really hard to get this done. And so I just I approach all of the people I train with a lot of a lot of sense of humor, a lot of patience, a lot of grace. But I also, people who are really experienced, they want conciseness and they want directness too. And one of my favorite things to tell people who are really good already is say, look, you're really good, but you're you've been doing this so long, and you're you're at such a high position of authority in your company that nobody's telling you the truth anymore. I hate to break it to you, but nobody's telling you the truth. Right? My job is to come here and be that person. I'm gonna tell you the truth. And uh you're good, you're impressive, but that's different than being influential. You want to be influential and you want to be impressive? Like we can go either way, and that's how we see it.

SPEAKER_03 43:47

You see how John went black on him right there? Do you see that, Antonio?

SPEAKER_01 43:50

How is that black?

SPEAKER_03 43:51

John went black. He started off all white, you know, their structure and this and that, and then he went black on him. Then nobody tell you what you really do. You know you really ain't shit. So if you really want to be shit influenced.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

But I did the Mama James. But Mama James does the opposite. Doesn't she she starts with a slap and then she hugs you afterwards, right?

SPEAKER_03 44:10

Yeah. Well, no, she starts nice. When you cross the line, she slaps you, put you back in place. And she, yeah. Okay. So I like this one. I don't even know if you notice that your inner tonation, your body language changed when you got to that last part. I'm like, that's what John went. That's what John went black on him.

SPEAKER_02 44:31

And you didn't even lean in. You just kind of went. You just look, look, motherfucker. You're really good. No, you are. Hey, that's the unk in all of us.

SPEAKER_01 44:39

That's the unk. Hey, look.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

But it was it was it was just so funny. You're like, you're very impressive. And ain't nobody gonna tell you what you really need to know. Guess what?

SPEAKER_03 44:53

That's me. That's why I'm here. That's your there you go. And so you set him up. See, it was the whole setup, and then you smack him. Now that's the cultural piece.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

I'm more five bit of sigma than I thought.

SPEAKER_03 45:08

And that's the part I try to get teachers to understand that we are all political and cultural in everything we teach other people. There's always a cultural part coming out. And just to be aware, one culture is not better than another one, but we're all bringing a culture. So that's why I asked you that question, John. Are you aware of the culture you're bringing? And are you aware when you dip into black culture or when you go from uh orchestra music to jazz? Because jazz, you kind of got to get the beat. People come in and come out, and you gotta stay on point. You get you you can't miss. So you're always to me when I see you talking, I think of jazz and how you approach things, and then boom, and then you hit them with it. So that's when you hit that. I was like, oh, there it is. That's the flavor. That's like, who do you know? Who do you know, John?

SPEAKER_01 46:04

But that's what I tell my clients. I said, this communication speaking is jazz. That's not classical music. Classical music, you you're supposed to play every note as it's written perfectly with your own interpretation. And the really good ones, the yo-yo mass of the world, are the ones who can still put their soul into it and make it feel something, but that's really hard to do. You have to play perfect. And whereas jazz, you have to be that good technically, yeah, but then it's the feeling. If you think about where, and this is we're gonna get black now, because if you think about where does jazz music come from, it is black music. It started in New Orleans in Congo Square with African and Caribbean people expressing themselves, and that infused the Western European instruments and their style. And when Louis Armstrong, he didn't play Amazing Grace, he went like that. That was protest, right? That was and so my whole point being how what it relates to communication is like you've got to be so good that you can come to a room and go, oh, what I prepared isn't gonna work right now. Uh I'm gonna have to improvise. I'm gonna have to take from what I have prepared and rearrange it and make it to the room. And it is connected even what you guys are talking about with like how you teach. It's like you got your lesson plan, but then class happens.

SPEAKER_02 47:30

But then class happens.

SPEAKER_01 47:31

Class happens, class happens.

SPEAKER_02 47:34

Have your lesson plan, and then class happens.

SPEAKER_01 47:36

Class happens, yes. In the British ways, we're gonna stick to the plan. There you go. So it's 90% of my work, yeah. You said something very it was a hot take mic drop at the end of a podcast. You said something to I'm gonna paraphrase, but something like Brown versus Board of Education was the single most devastating cultural thing to happen to black and brown folks in the 20th century.

SPEAKER_02 48:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:04

Did I get that somewhat right? No, that was right.

SPEAKER_02 48:07

Why don't it? Um it's funny because I've I've I've actually thought about that. I was like, did I go too far? No, not far enough, baby. But then LeBron is talking about the Caucasoid Mountains, and so I was good. I guess the door's open.

SPEAKER_01 48:23

I guess the Kakahoo and the fallacious what?

SPEAKER_02 48:27

No. Um, it was it was a hot take only because we were talking about sacred spaces and it wasn't really I shoehorned it in. Um and I've since listened to that small piece and thought about it, and I stick with it. I think what I was going towards was not that integration was a problem. Um, although that's how it played out, because they were battling segregation by race. Right. What they really should have been battling was segregation of resources. Yes. And go, yes. I didn't need Ernest Green and uh Melba Patillo and the rest of the Little Rock Nine to suffer through being spit on in order to, you know, being spit on and having things thrown at them and then needing the National Guard to be called in by the president to order the streets.

SPEAKER_01 49:36

Sound familiar? And we got Ruby Bridges' birthday just passed. Don't forget to do that.

SPEAKER_02 49:39

Ruby Bridges, who's an Instagram account. And if you don't follow Ruby Bridges on Instagram, what are you doing with your life?

SPEAKER_01 49:48

But evidently nothing. Hold on.

SPEAKER_02 49:52

And I didn't need I didn't need Ruby Bridges to be a six-year-old in a classroom with the one teacher because all of her white classmates were pulled out. She went to school for an entire year as a kindergartner with her one white teacher to integrate that school.

SPEAKER_01 50:12

And I wanted to just thought I thought that that there was a post about that teacher, and I was like, cool. I'm glad that they drew some attention to her and good for her. But that was one of those that's one of those things where white people get too much extra credit just for being good human beings. Like she was just being a good human being. The real story here is Ruby Bridges had to suck.

SPEAKER_02 50:31

Well, I don't know. Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna disagree with you on that. I don't think I don't think that was being a regular human being.

SPEAKER_00 50:39

I think that she was faced extra threats.

SPEAKER_02 50:44

She was she was being a regular, she was being a regular kindergarten teacher and saying, I'm going to pour into this child in front of me. And I I give her full credit for that. But the context, right? Context is king. Yeah. All the rest of her students were pulled out, and she chose to come back and teach and be in the presence and be in community with this little six-year-old girl who I'm sure was scared out of her mind. Yes. And so I didn't need those children to be tortured like that in order for equality to occur. And if books so if separate but equal was actually equal, I don't know that you would have had Brown versus the Board of Education. That's right. If there were actually resources, if the schools actually had textbooks, if there was a separate swimming pool for black folk, if they didn't dump bleach on black children swimming in the pool, right? Right. Um when I say brown versus board was the worst thing to happen to communities of color. It's because it broke communities of color up in order to access the resources that they were denied because separate but equal was just separate. It was never equal. Right. Plessy versus Ferguson gave white folk an excuse to just keep all the shit for themselves.

SPEAKER_01 52:29

Well, when you did that mic drop or the episode end, or whatever you wanted to call it when you first said that statement, I've chewed on it so many times. The white supremacy in that is really significant. Where it the message we were sending was oh, these it's not really desegregation, it's resource. Like you said, the good resources are over here in the white neighborhoods in the white school. So we're gonna do the right thing by these black and brown kids, and we're gonna allow them into the white school, we're gonna force them, thus saying that's that's where the good stuff is. Over here, the white stuff's the good stuff. A little brown and black's bad, so we're gonna give you access to our good white stuff. Instead, what if if we could have made the resources equal, then that would have been the better move. But like and what the compelling thing you said that it stuck with me beyond that was that you you said, you know, there were black doctors living next to a black janitor, next to a black engineer, next to a black bus driver, you know, and their kids are all going to school together and they're seeing black teachers emulating success. And and we we basically ripped that apart. And I said you're gonna go over here instead, where the white folks are and force you to I don't know, acquiesce and code switch and 90 percent 90 percent of the black teachers lost their jobs.

SPEAKER_02 53:46

Right, because they closed black schools. Yes. They didn't ship white kids to black schools. But the but the but the piece of it, right? So I I don't want to take anything away from uh uh the Warren Court, right? Earl Warren was the Chief Justice uh who had participated in many a racist policy in California before he was appointed to the court. I don't want to take anything away from the fact that they said segregation is bad, right? Segregation and education is inherently unequal. I'm not at all saying that. What I am saying is that uh they said that schools had to be desegregated with all deliberate speed. That's not a real time limit, that just means as fast as you can. Some states were segregated up until the 70s, which is why forced busing happened and whatever. Um but had they said, and so these monies are going to this school, these monies like all school district resources will be from this day forward split between these schools, right? That would have been a different remedy. It would have been a remedy, right? Talking about remedy and repair. Thank you, Brian Stevenson. Um that would have been a different remedy in order to repair some of the damage without the ancillary damage of destroying those schools, of losing those communities. That was my that was my take on that.

SPEAKER_03 55:36

Yeah, and you know, when you say that, Antonia, it just struck me the irony in that white supremacy is we feel so inferior to people of color that we're going to steal everything from them to have an advantage. Because if I was white and I thought I was superior, separate but equal would be fine. Here's your hundred million dollars, here's my hundred million dollars, and I'm just with my white people. But they're like, no, because if you give black or Latino kids$100 million, then we're gonna have to compete with them. We don't think we can compete, so let's steal that money, and then we can say we're superior. So it's always amazing that the act of racism for white supremacy is based on their feeling of inferiority because they feel I have to take and have to have an unfair advantage and then blame you for not being able to compete with me. Because during Brown versus border education, do you know that$200 billion earmarked for black and brown schools were given to white schools? They have a$200 billion advantage. So it's not that people of color want to go to white schools, we want to go to schools that are heavily resourced. So for reparations, if we said now for the next 10-20 years, we're gonna take that extra$200 billion and put them in black and Latino schools, you would see a flood of white people coming to the hood in droves because that's where the best schools will be, the most resourced. People don't put their kids in school because of race, it's by resource. But the resources are allocated by race. So it gives you the illusion that oh, white kids are smarter. No, they're not, they just over-resourced. When you see that kids are underprivileged, that means some kids are over-privileged. When you see that kids are under-resourced, that means who? Then who's over-resourced? So some kids who are disadvantaged, all these terms are used for black and brown kids. If my kids are disadvantaged, then who's the advantaged kids? And how do they get advantaged? So that's what I'm always looking at.

SPEAKER_02 57:46

Ask Charlie Kirk.

SPEAKER_03 57:49

Too soon.

SPEAKER_02 57:50

That's some of the books we never used to say. Yes. Well, he said that white privilege is a myth. That white privilege is a white privilege is a lie, or it's reverse racism. Like he just had this whole thing very much echoing what LeBron is saying.

SPEAKER_05 58:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:13

But yeah. I'll probably cut this little piece out. But it converges off. That wasn't from public inside. What there was a conversation we had that wasn't from public.

SPEAKER_03 58:28

I'm glad you said it because you got the editing power. So you said whatever you want to say.

SPEAKER_01 58:32

That's right. You can just let it fly. One of the things we've referred, evidently, we're real Dr. Carter fans. Our first guest has quite an impression on us. He said it within the context of religion, but religion is a system and education is a system. And it really struck me the difference between racism being a system and prejudice being personal and individual. Yes. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 59:07

I have no problem with anybody who's prejudiced. I'm cool with anybody of any race being prejudiced. That's fine. It's when you have the government on your side and it's racism, that's where I have an issue. Where you got the government and the law and the police on your side, then that kind of changes the dynamics. Then I have no recourse. Then I'm like, I'm out of luck. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:29

If the Supreme Court says it's okay for ICE to use skin color, language, but you can't use it status for college. To lock you up, you can't use it in deciding who to give money to to go to college or to let people in your college. That would be having the government on your side.

SPEAKER_03 59:53

And that's racist.

SPEAKER_01 59:54

Yeah. We're going to start using racial profiling to identify the serial killers, right? I better look out.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:02

You start pulling over the city.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:03

Well, John, luckily your white is a white dudes in pickup trucks? John. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:09

But you're a lone wolf, John, John. You're a lone wolf among 770 million wolves, but you're the lone.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:17

I mean, but John's a minority.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:19

Among a pack of 70 million.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:21

One of 1.2 billion.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:23

I am not in the global majority. We know this. I am in the global minority.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:29

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Yes. All the ladies. Ladies love, signal man.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:35

You know it. You know it.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:38

Everybody who lives in an empire believes the myth that theirs is the only empire that will never end. And the reality is that all empires end. Yes, they do. And so when you exist in the time of the ending of empire, then you go, well, this isn't this isn't how it's supposed to be.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:06

What's why? They're not following the script. It says here we live from. I'm in Santa Monica. What happened to Third Firtuity?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:18

Where's the Macy's? One of my favorite books is uh Starship Troopers by Robert Heinlein. And it follows this kid who joins the military following a girl, and then he goes through, and it's really about discipline and citizenship. But there's a piece of it where he's on this planet, and it's the rest and relaxation planet, and there's not enough radiation. So people don't evolve, right? Like evolution is retarded because of there's not enough radiation. And they're talking about that, and he's like, Well, they could dose themselves, like people here could dose themselves, but if you dose yourself with radiation, you get radiation poisoning and you probably die. Or you like it has to be a lot but gradual. And the the response is, yeah, but people are so short-sighted. All they see is what's happening to them, and they don't care about three generations from now. Oh wow. Feels like that's what the American experiment has been.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:33

Has been, yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:34

We we were gonna talk about education, and I think somewhere in here we did. But public education in the United States was set to develop a labor force that was capable of doing the work in factories. And it was supposed to share the American values with hordes of newly arrived white immigrants who were clutching their nationalist or religious heritages, origins, and languages, and make them all American. And that's a super short-sighted right.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:17

That's a brief 30-page paper he just gave us, John. Yeah, yeah. Is that your dissertation? No doubt. Yeah, it's the purpose of education. Ooh. Chapter seven.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:27

But but it it really is this, so you asked the question and I answered it right away because I like to do that. But you said, is the education system or the system of education racist? And I I said yes, because it was designed to take anybody who was culturally not capitalist, white Protestant, English speaking, and make them as white adjacent as possible, while holding out the myth that they could become billionaires through a lifetime of being on time and hard work and earning a paycheck. When the fact is that earning a paycheck is never gonna make you a billionaire. Never. And being on time in the last five years has been shown to be fallacious.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:29

Well, and and sometimes embarrassing if you're the first one to show up at Antonio's party.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:34

But not if you're John, because you're John. You like showed up at my party. Like you should that if the two of you showed up, it's gonna be a little bit more. It went fine. Yes, helpful, right? And so, but that's what I mean, is like that that we talked about what is the myth of America, but that myth, that American dream, that American scheme is perpetuated in the schoolhouses, right? There you go. Thank you for joining us here on three for the founders. Um, we appreciate you. Introduce ourselves. We'll be back on I hate you, shut up. We'll be back on in your three. We'll be back in your we'll be back in your uh podcast feed in two weeks.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:20

Yes. Until then, left on founders. Left on founders out. Thank you so much, people. We out. Yes. Thank you. Uh thank you for joining us. Still got questions? Other things you want to say? Well, hit us up at threeforthefounders.com on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, or TikTok. Or send us a text through Bud Sprout. Remember to like and subscribe wherever you get your podcast and share the pod with someone you think can benefit from it or add to the conversation. Till the next time, left on Founders.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

Thank you for listening to the Three for the Founders podcast. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed are the speakers' own and do not represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of any professional or academic institution. The material and information presented here is for general information purposes only. Listen at your own risk of becoming woke.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:22

Why do boys play with action figures and girls play with dolls?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:28

Because they're both dolls. Or they're both action figures.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:34

Yes. Barbie is Barbie is definitely an action figure. Especially when you put her on Figaroa.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:45

I knew what he was gonna say. Barbie's getting a lot of action.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:50

She's an action figure on Figaroa, for sure.